Episode 3
S10 Ep3 Do I Need a Spreadsheet?
In the third episode of the ‘Money and Me’ season, Simon and Bex talk about practicalities (including processes as well as tools) that can help us to manage our money well.
Some key points of interest covered in this episode include the following:
- Simon starts off by commenting that because people deal with issues in different ways, there is not a single, ideal way to manage our money. Instead, we need to select - from a range of options - the strategies and tools that are going to work best for us. [01:35]
- Rather than launching straight into an evaluation of money management tools, Simon highlights the importance of adopting key attitudes from the outset: being deliberate; being diligent; being discerning. [03:09]
- Unless we are deliberate in our approach to money, we will not take on the sense of responsibility that is required if we are going to be good and effective stewards of our wealth and possessions. [04:02]
- Diligence is the action of following through so that appropriate and thoughtful actions are taken. Research and study of relevant topics can really help us to achieve that goal, and Simon mentions a couple of specific recommendations that he has found particular helpful: the work of Mark Lloydbottom and books from www.eden.co.uk [05:47]
- Building up our ‘discernment muscle’ over time can really help us to align our decision making with godly principles and practice. [08:59]
- When it comes to the practicalities of managing our money, it is important to look both backwards and forwards. Looking backwards enables us to check for mistakes and also to review our spending. [10:47] Looking forward gives us the opportunity to plan the way that we use our money so that we can achieve goals that are important to us and are aligned with God’s call on our lives. [13:17]
- In response to a question from Bex, Simon mentions some money management ‘tools’ that he has found helpful. Currently, he uses a paid product, ‘You Need a Budget’ software, for his own purposes but he stressed the availability of free products that will serve most people’s money management needs – banking apps, spreadsheet tools and phone notes can all be really useful in helping us to track and plan expenditure etc. Bex added that she finds a digital ‘to do’ list, such as todoist, a great way of setting reminders to undertake particular financial tasks. [17:32]
- Simon concludes by emphasising the importance of taking account of both the ‘certainties’ and the uncertainties of life when planning our finances. Forethought, flexibility and allowing for unexpected contingencies can therefore be very helpful strategies to identify and develop. [19:38]
- Next week’s episode, ‘Life Happens!’, will drill down further into ways in which we can prepare ourselves and build resilience that can help us deal with the range of unwelcome surprises that we can end up having to deal with in our lives. [22:49]
Suggestions or feedback arising from this episode can be sent via email to whereyourtreasureis@freerangepodcasting.co.uk while messages via Instagram should be directed to @whereyourtreasureispodcast.
This show has been brought to you by Free Range Podcasting.
You can sign up to receive news and updates about this podcast by filling out the brief form to which you will be taken when clicking here: https://where-your-treasure-is.kit.com/13c7b5fec6
Transcript
Simon
::Welcome to 'Where your Treasure Is...', the podcast where faith meets finance.
Bex
::I'm Bex Elder.
Simon
::And I'm Simon Glazier. Each episode, we're going to explore how biblical wisdom can guide our everyday money decisions.
Bex
::We'll be looking at how we can give generously, save wisely, and navigate the complex financial realities we face.
Simon
::But remember, investments can go up as well as down.
Bex
::This is 'Where your Treasure Is...'
Simon
::Let's get started.
Bex
::Hello, and welcome to episode three of our 'Money and Me' season on the 'Where your Treasure Is...' podcast. I'm Bex, and along with my co-host, Simon, we talk all things faith and finance.
I will let you figure out who you think is the expert in what, if anything. Simon, how are you today?
Simon
::I'm doing well and looking very much forward to our topic today, which is entitled 'Money and Me: do I need a Spreadsheet?' And the answer is yes. Episode done!
Bex
::I feel like that is a lot of my life right now, being engaged to someone who loves a spreadsheet. So that is really fun. And also I would like to push back and say, do you always need a spreadsheet?
And while that could be a philosophical question, what we're actually going to talk about today is the practicalities in terms of - in our last episode, we looked at really, the principles that guide how we operate with money - and this episode is a bit more on the nuts and bolts.
So, Simon, I'm expecting you to launch straight in and tell us all about the spreadsheet you use, the apps you use, and we'll all just be able to plug in our data and have a great time. Right?
Simon
::I think in theory it's a great idea. In practice, it almost never works. I am a man who loves a spreadsheet, and yet there's so much that spreadsheets can do that I certainly can't do.
And what I have found over the years is that there are those who do perfectly well without a spreadsheet. It must be said, they're not compulsory. You can live without them. For a certain cohort of the human population, a spreadsheet is an absolute godsend, and we love them to bits.
But, inevitably, because our minds work in different ways, my spreadsheet would be different than yours, and they probably are very incompatible spreadsheets.
And I do spend time trying to interpret what other people have done, scratching the remains of my balding head and going, what on earth do they mean by this?
So, hopefully today we will reveal some strategies that can be employed so that you can choose whether or not a spreadsheet is the right solution for you.
And we're really going to talk about some practical measures about how we can be good stewards of this resource called money and the things associated with it.
Bex
::Now, as much as I give a little bit of spreadsheet pushback, I do think they are an incredibly useful tool.
And what I'm hearing from you so far is that rather than just finding a template and being able to run with that, really we need to understand why we're doing it and what we want to measure in order for it to be useful because, otherwise, it just becomes a bit like homework. So Simon, where do we start when it comes to thinking about how we track or review our money?
Simon
::So, we're going to start with some, maybe, attitudes towards why it is important to, yeah, keep an eye on our money - maybe principles that we can base our decisions on.
And I've come up with three of them and they are: being deliberate, being diligent and being discerning. A perfect three point sermon!
Bex
::I was about to say, do we have a pastor in the room today?
Simon
::So, deliberate, diligent and discerning. Let's think about these three things because they're the foundations on which we might answer the question, like you say, Bex: why?
Why are we doing this? Absolutely. Managing money can be homework for people. It can be a really tedious task that nobody wants to do.
But you can also create a mindset that gives you almost an excitement in managing your money when you see it doing good things. So, let's start off by being deliberate. And I do want to come back to the Parable of the Talents, when the master gives his servants resources and he says to them, I'm off on a trip. When I come back, I'm going to ask you what you've done with this money that I've given you.
And we know the story - they either do or don't invest it wisely. They do or don't create a return.
The point I want to make is that actually we have a God-given responsibility to do things with the resources he has given us. We've spoken about resources in the past - not just money, but our time and our expertise and our experience and whatever else.
If we don't make choices, proactive choices, considered choices about what we are going to do, then we're not being deliberate. And if we're not deliberate, actually we give up the duty of stewardship: 'I don't care what happens to it. It's not my job. It would look after itself. Certainly I'm not going to look after it.'
And my absolute belief is that if that's the way we approach money, then we're not going to be handling it in the way that God designed us to and asked us to. And if we can't be trusted with the small amount He starts us off with, then we'll not have the opportunity to be trusted with what He really has in store for us. But He's waiting to see, are you being deliberate with what I've given you? Are you being a good steward?
Bex
::And what I find really challenging about that parable is that it also speaks into decision paralysis, which I think we can all have of, like, 'Oh, my goodness, what do I do? I don't know, I'm just going to bury it in the ground.'
And actually, that's the servant who the master disciplines, the one who didn't do anything with it. And so as we seek to be deliberate, I suppose, it also involves fundamentally just making decisions.
So what's next, Simon? How can we be diligent?
Simon
::So, diligence is almost that action of following through. I've made a decision. Am I going to act on that decision?
And with that third servant who didn't make a decision, he just buried the money in the ground. He didn't have to do that. Not because of decision paralysis, not because of inexperience or expertise - there were people around him who were doing the right thing. He could have asked for their help, for their wisdom, for their input. Diligence isn't just following through on our own decisions; it's also tapping into the resources we have around us to help us make those decisions. It's almost about actually putting in some effort, some time.
Looking behind me, I've got a bookshelf in the background as I'm recording this podcast - lots of books about finance, lots of books about faith, and those two crossing over. It is by deliberately choosing to spend time to improve my ability that helps me make good decisions and follow through on them. I'm exercising diligence on an ongoing basis because I believe it's one of the skills God has given me that I can share with others. In fact, listening to this very podcast is a bit of your diligence: 'What should I do with money?' I'm going to find out what I should do with money.
Don't just take our word for it. Read the Bible study, pray, ask others, read other books, and then decide for yourself what is God calling you to do? And then do it.
Bex
::And really, we are so spoiled for choice in terms of how many resources we have access to, and we've talked a lot about the importance of community in that and having those conversations with other people and learning from them. But, Simon, you mentioned there having like a range of books or podcasts or that kind of thing.
On a super practical level, are there any websites, books, resources that you would recommend people checking out?
Simon
::So, Bex, I love the work of a guy called Mark Lloydbottom. He has put together some fantastically practical financial guides for Christians. Really, it is the epitome of the faith and finance journey - how to manage money well; and I have used his books and his study materials, his resources to help develop my own personal understanding of how to manage money. There are lots out there. It is finding one that suits you.
It might even be speaking to people in your small group at church, or your prayer group or your pastor and asking them for some input as well. The Bible itself is full of financial wisdom, but it isn't presented in the most easy to digest way. It takes some discerning to find out what the Bible is really saying. So, why not ask others for help first? There's lots of help out there.
Go to Christian bookshops, things like eden.co.uk, and put in there a finance or money search and you'll find some books about it.
Bex
::And if you're listening and you think, guys, I've got a great book, podcast, TV show, whatever it is, recommendation, please do either drop us a DM on Instagram - @whereyourtreasureispodcast - or send us an email at whereyourtreasureis@freerangepodcasting.co.uk.
Now, Simon, you mentioned the third 'D' - discerning. Talk to us about that, please.
Simon
::Discerning, really, is a weighing up process at heart, isn't it? It's taking the options available to you and then choosing which is right, which is wrong, which to follow, which not.
Discernment is a skill that we constantly practise, but that we can exercise over time.
I believe that what God wants us to do is to take the steadily increasing experience and knowledge that we have about life and apply it proactively to decisions, not in great depth every moment of every day, but building a habit of discernment - a habit of thinking through some of the bigger decisions.
And we've spoken about this in the past around we want God to be guiding our decisions, but we don't want to spend hours in prayer for every single small decision we're going to make. But if we can build that discernment muscle in us, we will look back and go, 'I'm glad I made those choices. I'm glad I bought those things. I'm glad I didn't buy those things. I'm glad I gave that money away. I'm glad I spent my time and my money this way.' - because we have learned what is good; we have learned what is bad.
With the prompting of the Holy Spirit, with the nature of God in us, who guides us, and with the support of other people who we ask, 'Do you think I should do this or that? Do you think I should have done this or that, in retrospect?' - and we can learn to make better decisions going forward.
We can be discerning almost automatically on the small things and on the big things - we have a process of where do we go for that accountable, supportive, wise advice.
Bex
::So, now that we know some of the reasons behind why practically keeping an eye, stewarding, planning our money is helpful, how do we actually do it, Simon.
Simon
::So, I want to break it, first, into two simple categories: we're going to look back and we're going to look forward.
Bex
::I was surprised we were looking backwards at all. I thought finance was all forward facing?
Simon
::It's probably more forward facing than generally people think it is, for most of us.
If you think of the idea of budgeting, then what comes to mind might be going through the bank statements and looking at what we spent our money on and categorising it and adding it together and working out that, oops, we, we didn't stick to a budget - we spent on this and we spent too much on that. So, there is a backward looking process, but it's not the main focus.
I would say there are two principal reasons we look backwards, but there are lots of reasons we look forward. The first reason to look backward is to check out any mistakes: 'Is there money going places it shouldn't be going? What is that transaction on my bank account or on my credit card? I don't remember that.' - checking that the money that you have spent was spent for the right reason, not that it's being siphoned away.
That might even mean you're still subscribing to that gym membership or that social media account that you don't use anymore. So, why are you paying for it? That's a diligence process of checking that you're being a good steward of money on an ongoing basis.
The second thing, then, is a double check.
It is to say, hmm, I had said to myself, to my partner, I had written down on my budget somewhere, that I was going to spend no more than this much money on - insert your thing here. Is it on food or fuel or clothes or cinema trips? Who knows what it is? Only by looking backwards can you check, did you do that?
Are you being deliberate about the choices that you have made in the past and are you being diligent in following them through?
So, we look backwards as a check, but we only look backwards if we have a sense of what we're trying to achieve in the future.
If we're going to answer the question 'Why?', we can take it to a very fundamental level: why are you spending money on this thing? And the answer should be, because it helps us meet the goals and objectives we've set ourselves or the dreams that God has called us to - our passion, our purpose. I like to say that every pound should have a purpose.
And if your spending is aligned with your purpose, then you're going to get there a whole lot quicker. And then you might find that God has an even greater purpose over the hill for you.
So we look forwards; we're going to be planning the future; we're going to be anticipating changes to our budget, changes to income in the future, changes to expenditure, where we're going to adjust, where we're allocating money.
We're also going to be looking forward to events in the future - some of which we will know about, some of which we won't - to make sure we're ready for them when they come.
So, in this exercise, if you can have a mindset of, 'I want to achieve something and I'm using the management of money as a tool to help me achieve that thing I really want,' then managing money becomes something that's a bit more pleasurable because it is aligned with a goal; it is aligned with the purpose. And it's not just a tick box exercise and homework that you have to do.
Bex
::And as you're speaking there, you have phrased it in an incredibly positive way, whereas I'm about to come in with the negative.
The other thing I was thinking about was, is there anything on my bank statement I would be embarrassed about or that I wouldn't want to share with someone - because I know I shouldn't be spending that money on clothes or music or whatever it is; and yet I am - because (one) that maybe highlights areas of our life where we need discipleship and accountability, but also, ultimately, we know that one day we are going to have to give an account of ourselves to the Lord and to explain how we used His money.
And ultimately, if I'm thinking, gosh, I don't want to explain this to my Connect Group leader, then how much more will I not want to explain that to the Lord of Everything?
Simon
::And isn't that that discerning process coming through? You look over your bank statement, your credit card statement, and think, I'm happy with these choices. I would spend that money again on these same things.
Now, Bex, you're in the situation where maybe you're going to find your finances being merged with somebody else's and you're going to have questions for each other: 'Why do you spend that much on trainers? That's crazy! That's my handbag budget, surely! You know, we have to reallocate here - let's get sensible!'
And apologies for being terribly stereotypical there.
Bex
::Oh, I thought you were referring to my trainer budget and Rory's handbag budget!
Simon
::I'll let Rory come back on that one!
So, it doesn't matter what we spend money on to a degree, as long as it is deliberate. We've chosen and then we've stood by those choices.
It is easier to do that as an individual, but it's harder to be accountable because you can hide whatever you like. As a couple, you have to talk about it with the other person. But, then, it's easier to be held accountable.
And we've spoken in the past about, would you be willing to show this information to a third party, to let them see how much you spend on these things? And if you can say, 'Yes, I do, because...'
So, for example, my wife and I love going to the theatre, but I'll tell you what: a trip to the theatre is not cheap, and it's not cheap if you add a meal out as well. And yet, I have come to learn, and it's taken a while, this is a seriously good investment in our relationship. It is time away from the kids. (Sorry, kids!) And it's time with my wife doing a thing that we love to do. And so, we've now got into a habit - it's only once every six months - it's, you know, we'll see a show, we've got one lined up for six months time. And we'll plan: what are we going to do in a year? We get massive anticipation and excitement about the whole process. And then having seen the show, we love it.
It's deliberate. It used to be the cinema. It might be meals out, it might be football matches, it might be concerts. What is the thing that actually gives you a sense of value and purpose but is still aligned with God's calling on your life? Don't be selfish - 'I like to do this. I'm going to spend my money on me,' which is the natural inclination. Instead: 'Of the resource that God has given me, how much does He want me to spend on others, myself, my future, my children, people I care about?', and then make deliberate choices: 'With this money, for me, I'm going to spend it on this because it does add value.'
Bex
::And I think in your example there, you've shown the difference between being discerning and being legalistic.
And so actually it's not about self-flagellation or how little can I spend or being miserable because you're giving all your money away - although maybe that's what you're called to do and that's excellent - but it's that balance between enjoying God-given gifts and balancing that with all your other needs and priorities as well.
So, Simon, on a really practical level, have you found any tools, any apps, any ways of approaching budgeting or forecasting that are super helpful?
Simon
::So as you've probably worked out, I'm quite detailed when it comes to managing money.
Bex
::No!
Simon
::Just quite detailed!
For many years I used 'Microsoft Money' as a bit of software and more recently I've moved on something called, 'You Need a Budget'. The difficulty is that these things can cost. They can come with a subscription fee - you have to buy the software or pay a monthly fee.
For many people, that isn't the right first choice. But using some of the modern banking apps will help you keep a track of how you're spending money, in which categories. You still have to look at it and then pull that data out somewhere and think about it.
But this is where a spreadsheet does come in very handy - there are lots of free spreadsheet tools. You could use a notebook; you could use your phone note section - they are just means of recognising that, I want to be deliberate - I'm going to put in place some checks and some balances, maybe a budget: 'No more on this than that; I'm going to spend that much on the other,'; maybe a list of those expenses that come out automatically: is it your rent or your mortgage or your car payment or food or fuel - working out what's left over so you have a sense of, I am managing my money, but also, I'm making the most of it so that rather than wasting it and not having as much as you probably should have, you're able to maximise the value to yourself and to others and to the Kingdom through what you've got.
Bex
::And one thing that I find incredibly useful just in terms of ensuring I continue to do that is by scheduling recurring tasks on the To Do List app that I use - my personal preference is 'todoist', but what it means is I can set a task like, 'Look at money once a month,' or 'Look at my pension once a year,' so that it's actually built into my calendar rather than being a nice idea that I don't follow through on.
Simon, I think there was one other element you wanted to talk to us about today, which was the balance of certainty versus uncertainty when financial planning.
Simon
::Yeah, so there are categories of expenditure that we just know are going to happen. Let's take for example, take out a mortgage to buy a house - you know full well that for the next 25, 35 - longer - years, you're going to be paying this amount of money out on a regular basis. There is certainty and you can plan for that and build it into your financial monitoring.
Picking up your point, Bex, you might find that you have chosen a two-year fixed rate or a five-year fixed rate and at the end of that period the amount your mortgage is going to cost is going to change - so, create a task ahead of time to look, to investigate. Are you ready when that time comes to make a change?
And these kind of tasks can be set for all sorts of things. Are you going to change your phone every so often? What about replacing a car and saving up for that? What about utility bills or subscriptions that you're going to take out for six months or a year? But then you have to remember to stop - setting tasks to help you make your own financial decisions is really good!
And these are certainties in the future - you can use that certainty to build a framework for your finances that is known, that is fixed.
But then, we have the uncertainties of life, and there are probably more uncertainties than certainties.
We're not quite sure how much we're going to spend on that thing: 'Oh, we planned for a holiday, but it's cost a different amount,' or 'I'm ill - I couldn't take it then.'
What about some of life's bigger uncertainties - we want to have children; we're just not sure when, how many and how much they're going to cost. Or what if somebody is ill for the long term or suffers redundancy or even death?
Major uncertainties in life can be prepared for, so within this financial stewardship process, when you give every pound a purpose, some of those purposes are almost for a rainy day - for emergencies.
If you can combine, then you don't want to put all your money, for example, for your future into your pension, because it's great for the long, long term, but terrible for emergencies, and flexibility.
You have to have that balance. I might need some money out - if the car breaks down; if the washing machine breaks down. What if you're renting and then your landlord kicks you out because they're going to sell the property? You've got to move somewhere else. What if you get relocated with work?
So many changes! So, it's the balancing of what is known and fixed, and keeping flexibility around the edges. There's a phrase people use which is 'hoping for the best but planning for the worst'. The thing is, hoping for the best isn't always the best way to go about things. So, can we plan for the best and also plan for the worst - hold those two in tension: if all goes according to plan, we're going to have this kind of financial future... but we have a plan B and a plan C and a plan D.
If things don't go quite right, here's how we're going to manage balancing the certainty of life and the many uncertainties we will face over time.
Bex
::So, it is safe to say my head is now in overdrive thinking of all the potential uncertainties and how I could possibly deal with them!
And so, Simon, I'm hoping that we might dig a bit more into the practical of how we plan for that and, really, the balance between saving and being responsible and diligent in that way, and also not being fatalistic or hoarding money for the sake of it - still having that freedom to be generous and spontaneous.
So, would you be up for chatting a bit more about that in episode four?
Simon
::Episode four, coming up shortly - where, yeah, let's speak about, 'Hey, life happens!', and what can we do about it.
Bex
::We will see you then and look forward to that conversation.
Simon
::If you have any questions for us on the topic of managing money or of managing money in difficult situations, then do feel free to get in touch. You'll find contact details in the show notes if you don't know them already.
So, we will speak to you next time. Goodbye from me!
Bex
::And bye from me!
That's it for this episode of 'Where your Treasure Is...'
Simon
::Thanks for listening. Let's keep learning to be good stewards of all we've been given.
Bex
::See you next time.
