S10 Ep6 The Great Giveaway

Simon

:: 00:00

Welcome to 'Where your Treasure Is...', the podcast where faith meets finance.

Bex

:: 00:09

I'm Bex Elder.

Simon

:: 00:11

And I'm Simon Glazier. Each episode, we're going to explore how biblical wisdom can guide our everyday money decisions.

Bex

:: 00:18

We'll be looking at how we can give generously, save wisely, and navigate the complex financial realities we face.

Simon

:: 00:25

But remember, investments can go up as well as down.

Bex

:: 00:29

This is 'Where your Treasure Is...'

Simon

:: 00:30

Let's get started.

Bex

:: 00:33

Hello. We are in season ten, episode six, where we're talking money and me, ‘The Great Giveaway’. Simon, I'm intrigued by this: are you going to give me money, or how does this work?

Simon

:: 00:47

I could do. I suppose that will be part of our topic of conversation today, but I think it's a greater giveaway than that we're aiming to achieve here.

Bex

We're not just trying to give away a bit of what we've got; it's to join in the Great Giveaway - I suppose that recognition, certainly from a faith perspective, that everything we have has been given to us and not all of it has been given to us just for our own benefit. We are called to be stewards. We are called to be generous.

And so, how can we partner with God in his great giveaway rather than be the ones who are expecting that, ‘Charity starts at home. Please feel free - give to me, give to me! That's always good!’

Now, how can we be the ones doing the giving? And why? Why is this a topic that we should talk about in a faith and finance podcast?

We'll dig into that a bit as well. Does that answer your question?

Bex

:: 01:42

Ah, yes, and I feel called out, so it's a double winner!

Before we get into the money side of things, Simon, is that the only thing that we are called to give away on a more general faith perspective?

Simon

:: 01:56

Hardly. Is it the only thing? It's almost the last thing we should give away. I suppose it's one of the many things we should give and we have covered in the past the many and varied things that we can give.

We could give our time, we can give our expertise, we can give our opinion, we can give our support, we can give our love, our affection, we can give access to our homes and to our families.

There's so many things, and yet money often becomes the narrow focus of generosity, almost because it's the hardest thing to give for some people.

But it's also the easiest thing to be seen to give, especially if we want to be seen to give.

And we know that the verse, ‘Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,’ gives us a sense of, maybe all generosity shouldn't be too overt and too public.

But, yeah, money is a thing we can give - but even how we give money, how we choose to, when we choose to, to whom, all has an impact.

So, I think generosity and giving should be considered more holistically. And money is just one of the parts of that.

Bex

:: 02:58

And it's interesting as well, if you take that to its fullest extent and we only give money, then actually, no matter how much money our chosen charity or church or business has, you can't actually do anything with it without people who are giving time - whether that is paid or voluntary - people who are giving their giftings and making the thing happen, and people giving their voice and telling people about the great thing that this business does or charity so that they can help more people.

And so, actually, as much as money can be the, sometimes, starting and ending point of what we give, if that's all we give, we're perhaps not going to be as effective as if we bring in some of those things you mentioned, Simon.

Simon

:: 03:45

And we can paraphrase that, using some words from the Bible. Dive into 1 Corinthians 13, which is not a famous verse about giving, but it sneaks something in there.

1 Corinthians 13:3 says this: ‘If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship, that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.’

Generosity is not the be all and end all. It is an expression of love. It's an expression of response in our faith. It isn't the measure itself. It is one of the things that we do.

So, let's have a talk around, ‘Why? Why is it important to us to be generous with what we have been given?’

And we'll try and broaden it from just a faith perspective a bit more widely as well. So, Bex, where do you think we should start with this topic of giving?

Bex

:: 04:36

Well, quite frankly, I am intrigued because when we were planning this episode, you brought up some things that I didn't know were effectively benefits of giving. And you were particularly looking at the health benefits. Can we start there, please?

Simon

:: 04:51

So, I was introduced to this through a book called ‘Happy Money’ many years ago - lovely little book! And it gives you five top tips as to how to manage your money in a more joyful way, how to have a better relationship with money.

And one of them was to do with giving, generosity. And in the study, it collated a number of scientific studies together and explained that being generous is very good for you scientifically in terms of the psychology of giving and the health benefits of giving.

So, have a dig online - there's loads of research into the benefits of giving. One of them is actually to do with the brain's reward centres: you know, those chemicals that are generated by certain actions that we do - hormones like serotonin or dopamine - which contribute to feelings of well-being and pleasure. And it turns out that when you are generous - when you give - the body naturally produces these hormones and makes you feel good.

In fact, for a certain group of people, perhaps for those who have a reasonable amount of money, - they have enough for themselves - giving money is the most efficient way of creating happiness! Spending it on yourself isn't as effective!

And so, we have this double whammy of the benefits of giving to the recipient, but also the benefits of giving to you, doing the giving. And that is such a great perspective: that I can make myself feel better by giving away.

Bex

:: 06:19

Almost like we are hardwired to be generous and to give things away!

Simon

:: 06:23

Who'd a thunk it!

Bex

:: 06:24

I know, but what I really love about that particular bit of research is that so often we hear about serotonin and dopamine in the context of potentially unhealthy habits – so, things like social media, we get a dopamine hit when someone likes our post, or we get a dopamine hit when we buy something new or sometimes when we engage in more risky behaviour.

And so, I love that, actually, we get the same, if not more powerful, results when we are also generous as well.

Simon

:: 06:56

What we could do - we could actually create a serotonin virtuous cycle!

Bex

:: 07:02

Ooh, tell me more.

Simon

:: 07:04

So, here's what I'm thinking. You do your social media post because you want people to like you. Okay? That's why you do it.

And then, they like you and you feel good and then you make a deal with yourself that every like you get, you're going to give some money to charity and then you start giving money away and then you tell people how generous you are and then they like that as well. Then, you give more away - you could create this virtuous cycle. You might end up being very poor, but you'll be very happy!

Bex

:: 07:27

What's not to love in that! Simon, why don't you test it out and tell us how it goes? And we look forward to hearing back from this experiment!

Simon

:: 07:36

Well, herein lies one of the hacks that we have employed in the past - this idea of spontaneous planned giving. We've spoken about my business, where we try and give away a chunk of money every year.

And so, it's given in the budget - it's been given away; it's already categorised as it belongs to somebody else. We just haven't worked out who's going to get it yet.

And then, you get other people involved; you say, ‘Hey, would you like to nominate who's going to get some of this money? Would you like to vote?’

And you bring these people into the conversation, and then they get to give away some of the money that's already been allocated, but they get some of the vicarious benefit of feeling good about it. And in that moment, we feel good - we've built connection with people, we've promoted generosity, but we've also helped them feel good.

And that can prompt them to also want to be generous themselves. So, it's part of this circular economy of generosity. The more you give, the more people want to give.

But it does create a challenge around doing it in secret.

I think some giving, it's appropriate, like fundraising, like volunteering your time - let people know what you're doing, get them involved, get them interested, and get them following suit.

Bex

:: 08:49

And what I loved about your example there is that by joining in with giving and getting to be a part of that and actually almost testing it out with someone else's money before you part with your own cash, is that it also creates this sense of purpose.

You feel like you've done something useful and worthwhile, whether that is with your money or just with the time discussing who is it going to go to and think about how much it's going to benefit that charity. That's so exciting!

It can also actually help us think outside of our own world and reduce materialism as we focus from maybe thinking about more material possessions and what we need to do, but actually focusing on the needs of others.

And, finally, it also feels like that's a really key relationship moment, because what I found in these moments is that actually people nominate charities that are close to their hearts - whether it's someone who works for them, whether you benefited from that charity, whether you know people who have struggled with those issues, and so you want to see that change in society.

Actually, more often than not, where we put our money reflects our heart and our values, hence the name of this podcast and Jesus's very wise point about where your treasure is, your heart also lies.

And so, when we're talking about where we're giving our money to, we're actually also entering really quite a deep heart conversation of what matters most to you - What are you prioritising? What is valuable to you? - which is just really exciting to have!

Simon

:: 10:24

Let me give you another wee hack that I have found useful; in fact, two hacks. In terms of the attitude towards generosity. I'll start with a bit of a negative feeling that I sometimes have.

I have some friends - I love them dearly - but I sometimes get overwhelmed by the number of things they do to raise money for charity. It almost feels a bit like they're always asking for the next bit of money and the next bit of money, and some of the causes they support aren't my causes. My heart doesn't leap at, ‘Oh, I could give money to that cause.’

I have to sometimes overcome my heart burden of, ‘Oh, do I really need to do this again?’ And what I found is that it's not about the charity and cause that they are raising money for - it's actually my relationship with that person.

I want to support them because they want to support something else. They have taken this step of boldness, of courage. They're going to do a thing. It could be a run, it could be a parachute jump, it could be something deeply uncomfortable - and I hope it is uncomfortable to make it worthwhile sponsoring them. But they're also putting themselves out there and saying, ‘I'm doing this thing to raise money for a cause that matters to me.’

And I might think, ‘Well, the cause doesn't matter to me, but you do matter to me. I'm prepared to invest some of my money in our relationship.’ A wee word of encouragement on whatever the platform they're using to fundraise, a wee text to say, ‘Hey, heard you're doing this thing. Fantastic! I've sent some money your way,’ - those are good investments in our own lives, in our own relationships, and therefore in our own health.

So that's an easy one that might come across your path from time to time.

The second one is to be almost a bit more deliberate in how we use our money. And it might not feel like generosity, but hear me out on this one.

I'm sometimes guilty of using the Internet as a means of finding the very cheapest way of buying a thing that I need. Naming no multinational companies that can provide things instantaneously, it seems, to my front door, I might be willing to shave off a few pence or a few pounds off an item by spending quite a lot of my time digging into reviews and finding the best place to buy it online.

Or I could consider going to a local business, actually getting out of my house, going to the high streets, walking into a shop, talking to somebody who works in that shop or owns that shop, having a conversation and, yes, spending a few more pounds on said item. But in so doing, I'm keeping that money almost closer within our economy. It's going into the pocket of somebody I've met, somebody who lives or works nearby. And I'm also building relationship and encouraging them and keeping the high street going, as it were.

So, money again becomes this tool, not just to save ourselves every penny, but to think what good can we do with this - even if it costs us a bit out of our pocket from generosity or by buying something for a slightly bigger cost, but to get a better outcome.

Bex

:: 13:11

And I really love the way you've brought where we spend our money into the conversation of generosity because I think often when I think of generosity, I'm thinking about charitable giving or helping out a friend, rather than where can I spend my money generously?

And what I’ve found is that there are lots of reasons why I might choose to spend my money where I do. Often, actually, when it comes to the bigger ticket item, I'm more invested in where that money goes because I want it to support somebody's livelihood, their family. I want something that's really well made. I want something I can see, I can touch.

And also sometimes you’ve got to think about the dopamine hit for you too. So, I love when, say, a bookshop has a reward scheme and if I spend so much money, then I get ten pounds free - and, then, it's like a free book; or coffee shops where you can buy a number of coffees, and we've got one near us where you can also choose to pay it forward. So, you're paying for someone who maybe can't afford that coffee and, and yet it still gets marked as a free coffee on your loyalty card and you're closer to that free coffee - it's an absolute dream hack for me!

Simon

:: 14:26

I like that one. That's really good!

For some people, though, giving financially is just something they cannot do. And we spoke about this - there are people for whom every penny really counts.

I think from a faith perspective - from a Christian perspective - there's certainly always some value in joining in what we call the grace of giving, even if it's a tiny amount. That account of the widow's mite is so powerful!

But there are other ways in which we can give, and they are also very good for us. So, volunteering is a classic example. We're not giving money; instead, we're giving time. And it might be we're giving time and expertise, depending on how we're volunteering.

Came across this great bit of research that was looking into the health benefits of volunteering and it was looking particularly at the older generation, older than me, certainly. And the stat they came up with was this: there's a 44% less chance of dying over a five-year period for those that did volunteer, that didn't volunteer. And it comes down to things like lowering your blood pressure, a reduced risk of heart disease, even increasing that lifespan by volunteering.

And I'm sure scientifically we can start to pick apart why is it good: Is it being in relationship with people in community? Is it exercising by getting up and out?

Sometimes, the best prescription a doctor can say is, ‘Just get out of your house and go and meet some people.’ Now, of course, what's great about the church, for example, is it's a natural place to do that. Not everybody has that.

So going and giving your time elsewhere is a pure benefit to you and not just to the organisation that you are volunteering with.

Bex

:: 16:00

And I would imagine that in a society that is increasingly individualistic and isolated, that actually those benefits of volunteering will only be magnified.

And what I love in the example of giving time is that I can't see a single benefit on your list of generosity benefits which wouldn't apply there too. So, increased happiness and well-being, improved mental health, stronger relationships, physical health benefits, a sense of purpose, reduced materialism, and a source of inspiration for others.

Simon

:: 16:36

You touched there on improved mental health and I think it's probably fair to say that mental well-being being is a crisis that we are going through in terms of how society isn't working very well at the moment - more people living lives maxed out on stress, with anxiety, with depression.

And there's only so much that medical intervention can do, and often it needs those people to start to change the way they live their lives. And, again, if the doctor could prescribe: ‘Go and volunteer. Go and volunteer in that charity shop. Go and volunteer for that organisation, that society, that club.’ That's where we can reap massive mental health benefits.

You talked about an isolated and lonely society; and people can be lonely in a crowd. Some of the loneliest are those who are young and single and are trying to build connections. It's not just the image we have, maybe of an elderly person, possibly widowed, living by themselves in a flat. No one comes to visit them. And at both ends of that spectrum, people can benefit from spending time, giving time, giving their expertise, giving their experience, and becoming part of something bigger than just themselves.

Bex

:: 17:53

And maybe you are listening and thinking people wouldn’t want to spend time with me or they wouldn't want to hear from me.

I want to suggest that that isn't true, not only because I'm sure you're a fabulous person, but the research suggests that this current generation of young people, Gen Z, are the generation who most want input from older adults but are the least likely to ask for it.

And so, actually, what we've got is a situation where there's a generation crying out for input from parental or grandparental figures and yet just won't ask for it.

And so, not only are you investing and getting all those benefits we talked about, but you are also helping to shape the next generation and actually to respond to an unspoken need as well.

Simon

:: 18:43

A wee example comes to mind. A young lad recently joined our church because he didn't want to go to the same church as his parents. He's in his early twenties, he wants a bit of freedom, he wants to build different connections. And he volunteered. He said, ‘I'd like to be part of one of the teams. I want to be on the media team, the team that puts up the words and any videos we have on screen.’ He's a bit techy and that was fine.

And so, he walks into church on Sunday morning and he walks straight past the person who is on the media team sitting at the computer and he walks straight up to me. He says, ‘Hi, Simon, I'm on media this morning.’

I said, Ah, I knew that. I'm part of that chat. I knew you were. Would you like me to introduce you to…’ and I mentioned the name of the lady who was on media - she's an older woman; she's serving in that team.

And he felt totally unable in that moment, as a young man, to just say, ‘Hi’ to her.

So, I said, ‘I'll introduce you. Come along.’ Introduced them: ‘Hey, sit down here. She's going to show you exactly what to do.’ And very quickly, they connected.

And he was learning something that probably, technologically, he was far more advanced than she was, but she'd been serving in this role for a while and putting these two together was meeting a need that both of them had.

Our teams at church are always looking out for people to step up and volunteer, and when people find the place to serve and they're part of a team and they build a bit of relationship with people who are different from them, everybody benefits - the giver of the time and the receiver of their time, in this case the church; it could be a charity; it could be a voluntary organisation.

Giving benefits both parties - and it can be such a positive societal change!

Bex

:: 20:14

And what's fascinating in that example is you were effectively the bridge. It took you very little time, very little effort to facilitate that interaction. But that five minutes or whatever you spent actually then allowed a much better end result. And so, even when we are pushed for time, maybe it is the ability to make connections, which is what the Lord is asking us to give in that moment.

We are coming towards the end of our conversation and, again, we have spoken lots and lots in the past about different ways we can start to begin to be generous; but, Simon, do you have any top tips on that - whether it's giving time or money or expertise or anything else?

Simon

:: 20:58

I think one of the first top tips would be find something that you enjoy doing anyway and then find some people to do it with.

If you're good with numbers, if you're good with tech, if you like talking to people, find a place where you can do that thing with others and help out somebody who needs you. There's always organisations looking for support and they would be happy to just get a bit of your time, however much you can commit. Give it a try!

Something else, though. We've talked a lot about the benefit of building connection, of building relationship. And you know what? We would love to build connection with our listeners. We would love to hear from you. What are your thoughts? What are your experiences? What are your challenges?

Because we are here to support you, to support you in your journeys of faith and your journey of finance. So, if you have thoughts, questions, comments, get in touch with us through the usual channels… but also, Bex, we have some new channels opening up, do we not?

Bex

:: 21:53

Ooh, tell me more… oh, I'm telling you more! I will tell you more! We have two new - well, one is refreshed, one is brand new - ways you can keep in touch with us.

The brand new way is a monthly newsletter which will be really honing in on one of the topics we've been discussing, digging into that in a bit more detail, pointing you towards resources that can help live that out in practice and keeping you up to date with all our latest news and developments.

And the other refresh channel is our instagram: @whereyourtreasureispodcast. We want to see this as a place where you can build community, can maybe start some of those conversations or ask some of those questions you have about money. And maybe that's a useful stepping stone to having those conversations in real life.

You'll find resources that are helpful or questions to help you reflect on how you are spending and using your money.

And you will most definitely want to be listening next week and keep an eye on the social media channels because we are coming up to a milestone episode of - I almost want to do a drum roll, but I don't want to kill your eardrums with that… there's a minuscule drum roll! - of 100 episodes. Oh, my goodness, can you believe it!

Simon

:: 23:24

Break out the cake!

Bex

:: 23:25

We're going to have cake. But we also want to live out some of what we've been saying in this episode and have the chance to give some of our resources away.

And so, tune in next time to hear more about that and how you can join in with the grace of giving.

Simon

:: 23:42

So, every episode of the 'Where your Treasure Is...' podcast, every newsletter we're going to send out, every Instagram post - it is not for our benefit. It is entirely for your benefit. This is part of our generosity to you. So, if you don't want it, that's absolutely fine, but we hope you do!

We hope you get some benefit. And all being well, we'll see you next time for episode 100!

Bex

:: 24:08

See, now I feel like we need a special episode on 180 as well, just to get the darts, ‘180’!

So, we'll see you first for episode 100, and then we'll see what happens on episode 180! Bye!

Simon

:: 24:21

Bye then!

Bex

:: 24:22

That's it for this episode of 'Where your Treasure Is...'.

Simon

:: 24:24

Thanks for listening. Let's keep learning to be good stewards of all we've been given.

Bex

:: 24:28

See you next time.